RFC: Tribulation Rapture, 1 Thess 4

1 Thessalonians 4

13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

Firstly, some are living up to the moment of the Lord’s coming. However that coming is described as the Lord coming down from heaven, with a loud command, the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. Another trumpet reference, presumably the last trumpet. The dead in Christ rise. While not conclusive, this sounds like full resurrection language.

We are caught up in the air. I don’t know Greek, but I did look up in my interlinear to examine the words “and so…forever” or “and thus … always”. This phrasing suggests that following this resurrection there is no qualitative state change nor proximity change with us and the Lord. If this is a pre-Tribulation rapture that takes us up to heaven, and then the First Resurrection brings us back to earth, then that’s a state change.  However we’re taken up in the air to meet Christ, that’s how it is for eternity. Which then begs the question if I’ve then misunderstood the whole distinction between heaven and earth for the church – once we’re Christ’s, our getting heavenly bodies is synonymous with having glorified bodies for an earthly kingdom in the same way that Christ had his glorified body post-resurrection and the New Jerusalem where God and glorified saints dwell on earth.

If this verse is a pre-Tribulation rapture, then we have the problem with reconciling all these glorious events surrounding Christ’s coming, John doesn’t mention anything like this prior to the Tribulation, nor does he record that any of the people on earth witness such a noticeable event or at least the consequence of people leaving suddenly. And we have the problem of “this is our final state” despite knowing that there is a deliberately named First Resurrection coming for the saints later.

If this is a post-Tribulation (Rev 19/20) event, then you have “we” and “still alive” and “who are left” at this time, which precludes a pre-Tribulation rapture since that should somehow exclude the same Saints who are connected by the “we” to Paul’s audience. It can’t be a different grouping/class of believers because Paul uses “we”.  Therefore we remove another verse from the list of proof-texts commonly used for a pre-Tribulation Rapture.


Objection 1:

1 Thess 4:13-18. This speaks clearly of believers being caught up with Christ in the air (whether from the grave, i.e., resurrection 1A, or from among the living). Christ doesn't return to the earth at this point; we go up to Him. All of those thus raptured receive glorified bodies suited for heaven, but also suitable for living on earth during the Millennium. We'll have those glorified bodies and be with Christ forever onward--first in heaven for the Judgment Seat of Christ, then the marriage of the Lamb, then returning with Him as His Bride at the end of the Tribulation, and reigning with Him on this earth for 1,000 years, then with Him into eternity (new heaven, new Jerusalem, new earth, etc.).

The problem is, as the verse shows, Christ is coming down when we go up to him. Yes, he might come down part-way and take us up. But the passage connects this with the what is described as “the coming of the Lord”, “a loud command”, “the voice of the archangel” and the “trumpet call of God”.

There is no proof in the passage that Christ stops and changes course on his way down (so this is a half trip down for the only reason of picking us up).

Nor is it confirmed that we stay strictly in heaven while the Tribulation plays out. The loud commands, voices and trumpets furthermore suggest an obvious return with features of command and authority and trumpets (associated with ancient victory or martial processions).

In contrast, a pre-tribulation rapture is so silent that there is no mention of anything prior to Rev 20 and from our expectations the world is not supposed to notice that Jesus has come back.

So I think what we have is an explanation of a pre-tribulation rapture that is being applied to these passages, and at best we can hope for passages some times to accommodate the view, but I’m still not seeing it clearly taught (i.e. we’re supposed to be pulling this out of the verses, rather than putting the thought in).