RFC: Tribulation Rapture, Revelation 7

Revelation 7

9 After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. […]

13 Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?”

14 I answered, “Sir, you know.”

And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore, “they are before the throne of God and serve him day and night in his temple; and he who sits on the throne will shelter them with his presence.

16 ‘Never again will they hunger; never again will they thirst. The sun will not beat down on them,’ nor any scorching heat.

17 For the Lamb at the center of the throne will be their shepherd; ‘he will lead them to springs of living water.’ ‘And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.’[c]”

I understand the reasoning that recognizes different groups of people exist/work at different times. If the church, connected with the church of today, is spared Tribulation problems by a pre-Tribulation rapture, here quite clearly you have believers who are specifically said to have come out of the Tribulation, who are referred to in similar ways as “we”, washing our robes in the blood of the lamb, serving God in the temple. The words of comfort, especially wiping away all tears, go back to Isaiah passages, which are as often applied to the church in general as our hope.

And it’s possible “out of” really means escaped somehow, but I don’t think that’s a solid approach since 1) I’d make it only to justify the idea that no saints are in the Tribulation, 2) at this point in the Revelation, those saints may have already endured the Seals in Rev 6, and 3) Revelations will describe more persecution of living people later who won’t worship the beast or accept his name/number.

While not a conclusive argument, I have trouble with the idea that God spares the church – his people -- the Tribulation while having another group of believers who sound no different than we in nobility go through the very same thing. Part of the great joy in the idea of the rapture is knowing the church is spared, but here is the church (at least another part) not spared. And this uncountable number of people is huge, perhaps like the church throughout the ages.


Objection 1:

Rev 7:9-17. Rev 6 ends by asking who is able to stand before the wrath of God? Rev 7 gives the answer: two groups of people. (1) [v. 1-8] 144,000 Jews (12,000 from each tribe) who get saved during the Tribulation, and who proclaim the gospel throughout the world (like Israel was supposed to have done in OT times); and (2) [v. 9-17] people from all over the world (Jew and Gentile alike) who get saved during the Tribulation, largely due to the testimony of the 144,000. Yes, there's a multitude of them! Not only will God be pouring out wrath during this period, He will also be pouring out His sovereign grace, sealing the elect from His wrath, and the Lamb will be their Shepherd (interesting juxtaposition of roles!). None of these are part of the Church, however (just like the OT saints were not part of the Church).

The problem is this is an explanation imposed on the scripture. We’re trying to explain why we’re not seeing the Church here. But you have, at this scene, the 144,000 commissioned from the Jews to go into/throughout the world, who are then going to go out into the world in the subsequent chapters, but the Great Multitude are in heaven, resting and refreshed, having come out of the Tribulation and the world. There’s no indication that they are specifically converts of the 144,000 either, though it is possible that the 144,000 have already been at work prior to their commissioning. This Multitude is from every tribe, tongue and nation and their part is played, where we definitely see a shift in focus to Israel and these new Jewish evangelists.

But how do we prove that the Great Multitude isn’t the Church? We explain that the Church is separate, already taken up, but where do we find that? Is there any indication in the text to distinguish these people from the bulk of the Gentile churches of history and the Old Testament saints?

If so, I can’t find it. Nor again, do we have anything in the Revelation that says the Church has already been raptured at this point.

Is it possible that I’m reading this a little too strictly and that, although we’re introduced to the 144,000 going out, and the Great Multitude having already been delivered, that this is all looking forward to people being saved after this point? Possible, but do I have any textual justification to say that the Great Multitude while appearing delivered in Rev 7 is either continuing to be delivered then and in subsequent chapters, or is delivered only in subsequent chapters? No, I don’t.

To answer the question, who is spared the wrath of God? Those that have already been delivered from the Tribulation and those now going out into the world who are sealed.

So we’re left with an explanation of how Rev 7 works with a pre-tribulation rapture, but little evidence.